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	<title>Comments on: ProPublica argues they&#8217;re open enough</title>
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	<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2008/11/propublica-argues-theyre-open-enough/</link>
	<description>A collaborative effort to figure out the future of journalism. A project of Harvard University.</description>
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		<title>By: Comments: Messy and flawed, but valuable &#8212; mathewingram.com/work</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2008/11/propublica-argues-theyre-open-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-274</link>
		<dc:creator>Comments: Messy and flawed, but valuable &#8212; mathewingram.com/work</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 18:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=426#comment-274</guid>
		<description>[...] Benton, writing at the Nieman Journalism Lab blog, makes a similar point in a piece about ProPublica&#8217;s response to a critical post by Portfolio finance blogger Felix [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Benton, writing at the Nieman Journalism Lab blog, makes a similar point in a piece about ProPublica&#8217;s response to a critical post by Portfolio finance blogger Felix [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Holden Lewis</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2008/11/propublica-argues-theyre-open-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-265</link>
		<dc:creator>Holden Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 01:36:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=426#comment-265</guid>
		<description>Josh, I&#039;ve run across the same puzzling attitude among old-time newspapermen who move to the web: They think any criticism of them in a blog is illegitimate if you don&#039;t call them first for comment.

That just ain&#039;t how it works anymore.

Tofel wants ProPublica&#039;s work to speak for itself, but he doesn&#039;t want your work to speak for itself.

Readers want to ask questions of reporters and argue with them. Tofel believes this is a waste of resources. In fact, it&#039;s a squandering of credibility.

You&#039;re right, Josh, that readers want transparency. In my blog, I occasionally explain why I chose to write about a particular topic because I think readers deserve to know. Knowing the metastory helps them to understand the story better. I write about mortgages, and in my blog I&#039;m up-front about my liberal, pro-regulation stance. Tofel being a traditional kind of guy, he probably thinks it&#039;s scandalous and somehow unethical to explain to readers where I&#039;m coming from philosophically. But he would not be able to convince today&#039;s savvy news consumers that his way is right and mine is wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh, I&#8217;ve run across the same puzzling attitude among old-time newspapermen who move to the web: They think any criticism of them in a blog is illegitimate if you don&#8217;t call them first for comment.</p>
<p>That just ain&#8217;t how it works anymore.</p>
<p>Tofel wants ProPublica&#8217;s work to speak for itself, but he doesn&#8217;t want your work to speak for itself.</p>
<p>Readers want to ask questions of reporters and argue with them. Tofel believes this is a waste of resources. In fact, it&#8217;s a squandering of credibility.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right, Josh, that readers want transparency. In my blog, I occasionally explain why I chose to write about a particular topic because I think readers deserve to know. Knowing the metastory helps them to understand the story better. I write about mortgages, and in my blog I&#8217;m up-front about my liberal, pro-regulation stance. Tofel being a traditional kind of guy, he probably thinks it&#8217;s scandalous and somehow unethical to explain to readers where I&#8217;m coming from philosophically. But he would not be able to convince today&#8217;s savvy news consumers that his way is right and mine is wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Felix Salmon</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2008/11/propublica-argues-theyre-open-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-180</link>
		<dc:creator>Felix Salmon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 01:19:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=426#comment-180</guid>
		<description>Oh wait, Heal doesn&#039;t work for California. There&#039;s not even a HINT of California making those allegations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh wait, Heal doesn&#8217;t work for California. There&#8217;s not even a HINT of California making those allegations.</p>
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		<title>By: Felix Salmon</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2008/11/propublica-argues-theyre-open-enough/comment-page-1/#comment-164</link>
		<dc:creator>Felix Salmon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 20:27:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=426#comment-164</guid>
		<description>Interesting that Tofel would talk to you on the record, but not me! But I don&#039;t think I&#039;m betraying any confidences to say that he told me off he record pretty much what he told you on it. Including this:

&quot;Tofel told me during our call: “The surest judge of whether a professional has a serious conflict of interest is that the client thinks they do. The client made it clear on the record.”&quot;

The first sentence here is contentious, as you explained very well. The second sentence here is downright false. At no point in the article does anybody from California&#039;s Treasury claim that Goldman had any kind of conflict of interest; all of the criticisms from the Treasury office could have been made of any bank putting out such research, whether or not California was a client. The conflict-of-interest spin came from ProPublica and from a professor at Columbia, not from California. (Not on the record from California, anyway.)

The closest that we get to an on-the-record allegation of a conflict of interest is this:

&quot;Heal said he was surprised by Goldman&#039;s actions. &quot;Goldman Sachs has a reputation as behaving in a responsible manner . . . and I don&#039;t think this is consistent with their traditions,&quot; he said.&quot;

What the &quot;this&quot; is referring to is unclear. Is it a conflict of interest? Or is it just the fact that Goldman put out negative research on California? Tofel thinks it&#039;s obvious it&#039;s the former. It isn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting that Tofel would talk to you on the record, but not me! But I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m betraying any confidences to say that he told me off he record pretty much what he told you on it. Including this:</p>
<p>&#8220;Tofel told me during our call: “The surest judge of whether a professional has a serious conflict of interest is that the client thinks they do. The client made it clear on the record.”&#8221;</p>
<p>The first sentence here is contentious, as you explained very well. The second sentence here is downright false. At no point in the article does anybody from California&#8217;s Treasury claim that Goldman had any kind of conflict of interest; all of the criticisms from the Treasury office could have been made of any bank putting out such research, whether or not California was a client. The conflict-of-interest spin came from ProPublica and from a professor at Columbia, not from California. (Not on the record from California, anyway.)</p>
<p>The closest that we get to an on-the-record allegation of a conflict of interest is this:</p>
<p>&#8220;Heal said he was surprised by Goldman&#8217;s actions. &#8220;Goldman Sachs has a reputation as behaving in a responsible manner . . . and I don&#8217;t think this is consistent with their traditions,&#8221; he said.&#8221;</p>
<p>What the &#8220;this&#8221; is referring to is unclear. Is it a conflict of interest? Or is it just the fact that Goldman put out negative research on California? Tofel thinks it&#8217;s obvious it&#8217;s the former. It isn&#8217;t.</p>
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