Comments on: An imaginary conversation about the Seattle Post-Intelligencer http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/03/an-imaginary-conversation-about-the-seattle-post-intelligencer/ A collaborative effort to figure out the future of journalism. A project of Harvard University. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:39:00 -0500 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: MichaelJ http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/03/an-imaginary-conversation-about-the-seattle-post-intelligencer/comment-page-1/#comment-9999 MichaelJ Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:33:13 +0000 http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=2962#comment-9999 Martin, I just found this at Terry Heaton's Pomo Blog, a great site by the way... Here's the lede If your web advertising strategy is built around page views, you’re going to have to find another way to sell. We’ve been saying this day would come for a long time, and today, The Wall St. Journal is reporting that Nielsen NetRatings will drop the page view as a metric to measure web traffic and instead rely more on time spent on a site. ComScore, according to the report, will also begin de-emphasizing page views. So, given the ratio of visitors to stayers on the NYTimes site, I'm thinking this is going to be a dead end. Here's the link: http://www.thepomoblog.com/archive/say-goodbye-to-the-page-view-as-an-ad-metric/#comment-290594 BTW, if you want the full Print is NOT dead screed, here's my story.. http://www.pbs.org/mediashift/2009/03/how-print-publications-can-help-hyper-local-sites072.html Martin,
I just found this at Terry Heaton’s Pomo Blog,
a great site by the way…
Here’s the lede
If your web advertising strategy is built around page views, you’re going to have to find another way to sell. We’ve been saying this day would come for a long time, and today, The Wall St. Journal is reporting that Nielsen NetRatings will drop the page view as a metric to measure web traffic and instead rely more on time spent on a site. ComScore, according to the report, will also begin de-emphasizing page views.

So, given the ratio of visitors to stayers on the NYTimes site, I’m thinking this is going to be a dead end.

Here’s the link:
http://www.thepomoblog.com/archive/say-goodbye-to-the-page-view-as-an-ad-metric/#comment-290594

BTW, if you want the full Print is NOT dead screed, here’s my story..
http://www.pbs.org/mediashift/2009/03/how-print-publications-can-help-hyper-local-sites072.html

]]> By: Martin Langeveld http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/03/an-imaginary-conversation-about-the-seattle-post-intelligencer/comment-page-1/#comment-9879 Martin Langeveld Fri, 13 Mar 2009 14:08:14 +0000 http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=2962#comment-9879 Michael, the fact is that most online advertising is still paid for on a CPM basis, and even if it all became based on clickthroughs, you could still compute the equivalent pageview CPM. $24 is high (again, as a total for all the ads on a page) based on reported single-digit ad CPMs, but reachable. But stay tuned, you've prodded me into looking deeper into the question of what kind of revenue yield per pageview newspapers are really getting. Once you start digging into this question, things get murky. So it's going to have to turn into a separate post, soon. Michael, the fact is that most online advertising is still paid for on a CPM basis, and even if it all became based on clickthroughs, you could still compute the equivalent pageview CPM.
$24 is high (again, as a total for all the ads on a page) based on reported single-digit ad CPMs, but reachable.
But stay tuned, you’ve prodded me into looking deeper into the question of what kind of revenue yield per pageview newspapers are really getting. Once you start digging into this question, things get murky. So it’s going to have to turn into a separate post, soon.

]]> By: MichaelJ http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/03/an-imaginary-conversation-about-the-seattle-post-intelligencer/comment-page-1/#comment-9871 MichaelJ Fri, 13 Mar 2009 13:19:49 +0000 http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=2962#comment-9871 $24 cpm on a web page? Don't know enough to know, but how does that work? I assume that the money to be made on the web is click throughs. the whole thing is about demonstrable metrics. If you are willing to pay for eyeballs only, why not do it in Print. Remember classified ads? Nice business while it lasted. So...business cards ads for local business in local papers. The marginal cost of delivery is next to zero. The local business understand what it is. They've been buying it shoppers for ages and still do. The problem is the ad sales force and process. If that's fixed, it should be a no brainer. Fair enough. There is no growth story to help those overleveraged public newspaper companies. That's a harder problem. But for everyone else Help! I can't figure out what I missing. $24 cpm on a web page? Don’t know enough to know, but how does that work? I assume that the money to be made on the web is click throughs. the whole thing is about demonstrable metrics. If you are willing to pay for eyeballs only, why not do it in Print.

Remember classified ads? Nice business while it lasted. So…business cards ads for local business in local papers.

The marginal cost of delivery is next to zero. The local business understand what it is. They’ve been buying it shoppers for ages and still do. The problem is the ad sales force and process. If that’s fixed, it should be a no brainer.

Fair enough. There is no growth story to help those overleveraged public newspaper companies. That’s a harder problem.
But for everyone else

Help!
I can’t figure out what I missing.

]]> By: Martin Langeveld http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/03/an-imaginary-conversation-about-the-seattle-post-intelligencer/comment-page-1/#comment-9842 Martin Langeveld Fri, 13 Mar 2009 00:17:37 +0000 http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=2962#comment-9842 Ha! I know you're the print evangelist, but we're talking web here. "Millstein" is talking web, that is. Ha! I know you’re the print evangelist, but we’re talking web here. “Millstein” is talking web, that is.

]]> By: MichaelJ http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/03/an-imaginary-conversation-about-the-seattle-post-intelligencer/comment-page-1/#comment-9835 MichaelJ Thu, 12 Mar 2009 23:25:20 +0000 http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=2962#comment-9835 Print page or web page? Print page or web page?

]]> By: Martin Langeveld http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/03/an-imaginary-conversation-about-the-seattle-post-intelligencer/comment-page-1/#comment-9821 Martin Langeveld Thu, 12 Mar 2009 21:30:41 +0000 http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=2962#comment-9821 Michael, Just to clarify, "Millstein" is talking about total page CPM throughout, not individual ad CPM. Michael,
Just to clarify, “Millstein” is talking about total page CPM throughout, not individual ad CPM.

]]> By: MichaelJ http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/03/an-imaginary-conversation-about-the-seattle-post-intelligencer/comment-page-1/#comment-9816 MichaelJ Thu, 12 Mar 2009 20:45:24 +0000 http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=2962#comment-9816 @Someone on the inside...brilliant. @ Martin . . .brilliant double! Where "Millstein" got it wrong: CPM on the web is never going to $24/CPM. That's a pipe dream. It's only going down, not to rise again. And the better position is their folks: as in "We’ll be selling online and nothing but online; their folks still have to straddle print and Web." As my grandmother might say, "from print, you can make a dollar." The trick is what they are doing in Iowa. Separate creating and storing the content from the media in which that content is delivered. I would be on "their folks." Interesting post about Gazette Communications in Cedar Rapids Iowa. http://www.nextnewsroom.com/profiles/blog/show?id=1625659%3ABlogPost%3A13301&page=1#comment-1625659_Comment_13323 @Someone on the inside…brilliant.

@ Martin . . .brilliant double!

Where “Millstein” got it wrong:

CPM on the web is never going to $24/CPM. That’s a pipe dream. It’s only going down, not to rise again.

And the better position is their folks: as in “We’ll be selling online and nothing but online; their folks still have to straddle print and Web.”

As my grandmother might say, “from print, you can make a dollar.”

The trick is what they are doing in Iowa. Separate creating and storing the content from the media in which that content is delivered.

I would be on “their folks.”

Interesting post about Gazette Communications in Cedar Rapids Iowa.
http://www.nextnewsroom.com/profiles/blog/show?id=1625659%3ABlogPost%3A13301&page=1#comment-1625659_Comment_13323

]]> By: Martin Langeveld http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/03/an-imaginary-conversation-about-the-seattle-post-intelligencer/comment-page-1/#comment-9807 Martin Langeveld Thu, 12 Mar 2009 18:09:33 +0000 http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=2962#comment-9807 Insider: well, that's a different imaginary conversation, isn't it. But if that were the strategy, Hearst would have been better off keeping the P-I alive rather than having to relaunch print down the road. Insider: well, that’s a different imaginary conversation, isn’t it. But if that were the strategy, Hearst would have been better off keeping the P-I alive rather than having to relaunch print down the road.

]]> By: Someone on the inside http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/03/an-imaginary-conversation-about-the-seattle-post-intelligencer/comment-page-1/#comment-9794 Someone on the inside Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:22:34 +0000 http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=2962#comment-9794 Hearst goes online, busting the union, slipping out of the JOA and when the Seattle Times flames out, the corporate suits bring back some kind of print product so the city will not be left a no-newspaper town. Kinda evil genius, huh? Hearst goes online, busting the union, slipping out of the JOA and when the Seattle Times flames out, the corporate suits bring back some kind of print product so the city will not be left a no-newspaper town. Kinda evil genius, huh?

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