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	<title>Comments on: Paying for online news: Sorry, but the math just doesn&#8217;t work.</title>
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	<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/</link>
	<description>A collaborative effort to figure out the future of journalism. A project of Harvard University.</description>
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		<title>By: Pay for Online News? &#171; Analysis of CMNS3420 Weekly Presentation</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-123496</link>
		<dc:creator>Pay for Online News? &#171; Analysis of CMNS3420 Weekly Presentation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jun 2010 14:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-123496</guid>
		<description>[...] Langeveld, M 2009, Paying for online news: sorry. But the math just doesn’t work, Nieman Journalism Lab, viewed June 7 2010, &lt;http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/&gt; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Langeveld, M 2009, Paying for online news: sorry. But the math just doesn’t work, Nieman Journalism Lab, viewed June 7 2010, &lt;<a href="http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/&#038;gt" rel="nofollow">http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/&#038;gt</a>; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pay Wall Economics 101 &#171; excapite</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-108113</link>
		<dc:creator>Pay Wall Economics 101 &#171; excapite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 May 2010 08:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-108113</guid>
		<description>[...] Martin Langeveld - Paying for online news: Sorry, but the math just doesn’t work. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Martin Langeveld - Paying for online news: Sorry, but the math just doesn’t work. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-28701</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Aug 2009 19:41:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-28701</guid>
		<description>I won&#039;t even pay $1 a month for Wired Magazine, which is right up my alley, totally rocks as a publication, keeps me informed about cool stuff, feeds me creative ideas, and lets me sound informed at the water cooler. I just don&#039;t have the time to read it, and kissing $12 a year byebye annoys the hell out of me, so no.

And Murdoch thinks I&#039;m going to be willing to pay to read AP reports, or his equivalent? No way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I won&#8217;t even pay $1 a month for Wired Magazine, which is right up my alley, totally rocks as a publication, keeps me informed about cool stuff, feeds me creative ideas, and lets me sound informed at the water cooler. I just don&#8217;t have the time to read it, and kissing $12 a year byebye annoys the hell out of me, so no.</p>
<p>And Murdoch thinks I&#8217;m going to be willing to pay to read AP reports, or his equivalent? No way.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-25233</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 07:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-25233</guid>
		<description>I think if news sites start charging users will completely avoid it and watch tv news instead which most of them pay monthly fees to cable companies. Tv news rating would be booming. Online users do not just visit one news site, they visit many news sites. I think feed reader like http://newscombined.com will help some users read just the headlines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think if news sites start charging users will completely avoid it and watch tv news instead which most of them pay monthly fees to cable companies. Tv news rating would be booming. Online users do not just visit one news site, they visit many news sites. I think feed reader like <a href="http://newscombined.com" rel="nofollow">http://newscombined.com</a> will help some users read just the headlines.</p>
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		<title>By: Seven reasons charging for content won&#8217;t work &#171; Transforming the Gaz</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-16926</link>
		<dc:creator>Seven reasons charging for content won&#8217;t work &#171; Transforming the Gaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 13:04:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-16926</guid>
		<description>[...] fall faster than subscription revenue will rise if news sites start charging for their content. Martin Langeveld has already done the math on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] fall faster than subscription revenue will rise if news sites start charging for their content. Martin Langeveld has already done the math on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Clinging to a dead biz model for dear life &#124; News Fu</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-15513</link>
		<dc:creator>Clinging to a dead biz model for dear life &#124; News Fu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 May 2009 16:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-15513</guid>
		<description>[...] lose the vast majority of their readership, while their new subscription revenues would come nowhere near what they&#8217;d need to continue supporting their legacy [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] lose the vast majority of their readership, while their new subscription revenues would come nowhere near what they&#8217;d need to continue supporting their legacy [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MichaelJ</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-15334</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 15:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-15334</guid>
		<description>Putting a fence around content is like putting a fence in the ocean. I just don&#039;t see it. No matter what Congress does. On the other hand outdated anti-monopoly laws will probably be changed. It&#039;s just not the answer for content creators.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Putting a fence around content is like putting a fence in the ocean. I just don&#8217;t see it. No matter what Congress does. On the other hand outdated anti-monopoly laws will probably be changed. It&#8217;s just not the answer for content creators.</p>
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		<title>By: Cec</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-15306</link>
		<dc:creator>Cec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 08:43:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-15306</guid>
		<description>I found the article &quot;Is the Free Web About to Expire?&quot; on PCMag.com which elaborates a bit more on the same concept if I understand it right.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2346956,00.asp

Brief extract:
&quot;...newspapers actually do get their act together, convince Congress to loosen monopoly laws, and then work in concert to create a fixed online menu of content prices. With all this once-free content behind a pay gate, one would assume that smaller news sites and blogs—even citizen journalists—would fill the free gap. Not so fast. The safety nets provided by companies with deep pockets and the patience to let a platform build its revenue base are no more...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found the article &#8220;Is the Free Web About to Expire?&#8221; on PCMag.com which elaborates a bit more on the same concept if I understand it right.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2346956,00.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2346956,00.asp</a></p>
<p>Brief extract:<br />
&#8220;&#8230;newspapers actually do get their act together, convince Congress to loosen monopoly laws, and then work in concert to create a fixed online menu of content prices. With all this once-free content behind a pay gate, one would assume that smaller news sites and blogs—even citizen journalists—would fill the free gap. Not so fast. The safety nets provided by companies with deep pockets and the patience to let a platform build its revenue base are no more&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: MichaelJ</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-15220</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 11:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-15220</guid>
		<description>Cec, the problem is &quot;This consortium could also negotiate special deals directly with the internet service providers, shutting off those ISPs which do not accept the model.&quot;

The power player is the internet. Newspapers can&#039;t force the internet to do anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cec, the problem is &#8220;This consortium could also negotiate special deals directly with the internet service providers, shutting off those ISPs which do not accept the model.&#8221;</p>
<p>The power player is the internet. Newspapers can&#8217;t force the internet to do anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Cec</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-15216</link>
		<dc:creator>Cec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 10:21:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-15216</guid>
		<description>I believe that a single newspaper will rarely manage to convert a significant portion of its online readers into paying users.
There can be exceptions in case of highly respected brands like WSJ or FT which in theory provide &quot;unique&quot; content, but the average newspaper will not be able to convince its readers to pay for content which can be found elsewhere for free.

On the other hand what would happen if all the newspapers would create a consortium and sell subscriptions jointly?

It could be a bit like a cable TV bundle where, instead of a bundle of film channels to be watched on TV, we would have a bundle of online newspapers to be read on the web.
This consortium could also negotiate special deals directly with the internet service providers, shutting off those ISPs which do not accept the model.
ISPs could embrace the model because it could bring them additional revenues, since they could be the prime sales channel of the subscriptions and keep a share of the transactions.
It is probably a crazy idea (very very difficult to implement), but I would like to hear some comments about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe that a single newspaper will rarely manage to convert a significant portion of its online readers into paying users.<br />
There can be exceptions in case of highly respected brands like WSJ or FT which in theory provide &#8220;unique&#8221; content, but the average newspaper will not be able to convince its readers to pay for content which can be found elsewhere for free.</p>
<p>On the other hand what would happen if all the newspapers would create a consortium and sell subscriptions jointly?</p>
<p>It could be a bit like a cable TV bundle where, instead of a bundle of film channels to be watched on TV, we would have a bundle of online newspapers to be read on the web.<br />
This consortium could also negotiate special deals directly with the internet service providers, shutting off those ISPs which do not accept the model.<br />
ISPs could embrace the model because it could bring them additional revenues, since they could be the prime sales channel of the subscriptions and keep a share of the transactions.<br />
It is probably a crazy idea (very very difficult to implement), but I would like to hear some comments about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Internet efter gratis-eran – exklusivt, svindyrt och mötesorienterat? &#171; Nils Holmlöv</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-14711</link>
		<dc:creator>Internet efter gratis-eran – exklusivt, svindyrt och mötesorienterat? &#171; Nils Holmlöv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 15:05:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-14711</guid>
		<description>[...] med gratisluncher – igen. Och visst är det så att i slutändan måste ju någon betala. Men  betalda prenumerationer kommer inte att fungera i framtiden heller enligt Martin Langewald (Nieman Journalism Lab, Harvard). Även med generösa antaganden om hur [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] med gratisluncher – igen. Och visst är det så att i slutändan måste ju någon betala. Men  betalda prenumerationer kommer inte att fungera i framtiden heller enligt Martin Langewald (Nieman Journalism Lab, Harvard). Även med generösa antaganden om hur [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Traditional Media and the Internet &#8211; Part 5 &#171; Lactose-Free Thoughts</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-14476</link>
		<dc:creator>Traditional Media and the Internet &#8211; Part 5 &#171; Lactose-Free Thoughts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 20:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-14476</guid>
		<description>[...] piece from the Nieman Journalism Lab at Harvard University argues that the fee-for-content model won&#8217;t work because readers simply won&#8217;t pay prices that are high enough to significantly increase [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] piece from the Nieman Journalism Lab at Harvard University argues that the fee-for-content model won&#8217;t work because readers simply won&#8217;t pay prices that are high enough to significantly increase [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Langeveld</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-14012</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Langeveld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 14:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-14012</guid>
		<description>Michael, I wrote: &quot;...they may be able to charge for some very high-value content that goes beyond their core site offerings...&quot;  So I agree with you — it needs to be new, high value, incremental content.  One way to start:  instead of burying content forever in archives priced at $3.95 per article, hard for users to find and generating very few sales, why not sell a $3.95 monthly subscription providing unlimited archive access, and offer links to relevant archive stories with every current story.  (Hyperlinked inside stories, even!)  Then add access to other extras -- photo and video archives and outtakes, full interview transcripts, and the more niche-y content you suggest, which could include things people are willing to pay for elsewhere: a weight-loss site and online cooking lessons from local chefs come to mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, I wrote: &#8220;&#8230;they may be able to charge for some very high-value content that goes beyond their core site offerings&#8230;&#8221;  So I agree with you — it needs to be new, high value, incremental content.  One way to start:  instead of burying content forever in archives priced at $3.95 per article, hard for users to find and generating very few sales, why not sell a $3.95 monthly subscription providing unlimited archive access, and offer links to relevant archive stories with every current story.  (Hyperlinked inside stories, even!)  Then add access to other extras &#8212; photo and video archives and outtakes, full interview transcripts, and the more niche-y content you suggest, which could include things people are willing to pay for elsewhere: a weight-loss site and online cooking lessons from local chefs come to mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Andersen</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-13974</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Andersen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 04:28:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-13974</guid>
		<description>So I&#039;ve all the comments on this first-rate post, and I have to observe that everybody, including Martin, seems to be making an assumption: that the only content that might be placed behind the pay wall would be some sort of content already offered by newspapers.

Wouldn&#039;t it make much more sense to create new varieties of niche-y stuff, then put &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; behind the pay wall?

Wouldn&#039;t that totally shake up this Etch-a-Sketch?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So I&#8217;ve all the comments on this first-rate post, and I have to observe that everybody, including Martin, seems to be making an assumption: that the only content that might be placed behind the pay wall would be some sort of content already offered by newspapers.</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t it make much more sense to create new varieties of niche-y stuff, then put <i>that</i> behind the pay wall?</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t that totally shake up this Etch-a-Sketch?</p>
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		<title>By: Online Newspaper Charges &#171; Usability and Common Sense Go Hand in Hand Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-13826</link>
		<dc:creator>Online Newspaper Charges &#171; Usability and Common Sense Go Hand in Hand Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 16:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-13826</guid>
		<description>[...] There&#8217;s a fantastic article here that destroys the argument that charges would cover the cost of lost advertising revenue: http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] There&#8217;s a fantastic article here that destroys the argument that charges would cover the cost of lost advertising revenue: <a href="http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/" rel="nofollow">http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Subscription? &#171; Sean Versus Online Journalism</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-13767</link>
		<dc:creator>Subscription? &#171; Sean Versus Online Journalism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 May 2009 01:51:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-13767</guid>
		<description>[...] in the the Nieman Journalism Lab Blog, Martin Langeveld tries to make the case that the more they charge, the less money the newspaper [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in the the Nieman Journalism Lab Blog, Martin Langeveld tries to make the case that the more they charge, the less money the newspaper [...]</p>
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		<title>By: NewBizNews: Paid content models &#171; BuzzMachine</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-12851</link>
		<dc:creator>NewBizNews: Paid content models &#171; BuzzMachine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-12851</guid>
		<description>[...] other back-of-envelope calculations of paid content&#8217;s value by Martin Langeveld and Jeff Mignon and Nancy Wang. Anyone know of others? We&#8217;d also like to aggregate [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] other back-of-envelope calculations of paid content&#8217;s value by Martin Langeveld and Jeff Mignon and Nancy Wang. Anyone know of others? We&#8217;d also like to aggregate [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ellis Benus</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-12231</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellis Benus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 06:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-12231</guid>
		<description>tutsplus.com has several websites. They charge $9 a month for the plus version. It&#039;s worth it. If the news was worth it, and we didn&#039;t all feel it was biased crap, we might pay for that too...

But know that in a recession the revenues are probably even lower, and people cut subscriptions, newspaper, magazine, online, as one of their first cutbacks. Just for future notice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tutsplus.com has several websites. They charge $9 a month for the plus version. It&#8217;s worth it. If the news was worth it, and we didn&#8217;t all feel it was biased crap, we might pay for that too&#8230;</p>
<p>But know that in a recession the revenues are probably even lower, and people cut subscriptions, newspaper, magazine, online, as one of their first cutbacks. Just for future notice.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Rosenberg&#8217;s Wordyard &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The OPEC plan for newspapers</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-11997</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Rosenberg&#8217;s Wordyard &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The OPEC plan for newspapers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-11997</guid>
		<description>[...] reality, such a move would be suicidal: it would decimate these sites&#8217; traffic while only marginally increasing their revenue. It would also hasten the evolutionary development of alternative, Web-only news organizations and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] reality, such a move would be suicidal: it would decimate these sites&#8217; traffic while only marginally increasing their revenue. It would also hasten the evolutionary development of alternative, Web-only news organizations and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: APoliticsNow!&#187; Blog Archive &#187; In the wake of the newspaper execs&#8217; hissy fit</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-11984</link>
		<dc:creator>APoliticsNow!&#187; Blog Archive &#187; In the wake of the newspaper execs&#8217; hissy fit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 20:45:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-11984</guid>
		<description>[...] of the barriers to enacting a pay wall, while Martin Langeveld at Harvard&#039;s Nieman Journalism Lab, ran the numbers and found that erecting a paywall doesn&#039;t make financial [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of the barriers to enacting a pay wall, while Martin Langeveld at Harvard&#8217;s Nieman Journalism Lab, ran the numbers and found that erecting a paywall doesn&#8217;t make financial [...]</p>
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		<title>By: In the wake of the newspaper execs&#8217; hissy fit &#124; News Fu</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-2/#comment-11983</link>
		<dc:creator>In the wake of the newspaper execs&#8217; hissy fit &#124; News Fu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Apr 2009 20:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-11983</guid>
		<description>[...] barriers to enacting a pay wall, while Martin Langeveld at Harvard&#8217;s Nieman Journalism Lab, ran the numbers and found that erecting a paywall doesn&#8217;t make financial [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] barriers to enacting a pay wall, while Martin Langeveld at Harvard&#8217;s Nieman Journalism Lab, ran the numbers and found that erecting a paywall doesn&#8217;t make financial [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Clinging to the past won&#8217;t save newspapers &#171; Transforming the Gaz</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-11821</link>
		<dc:creator>Clinging to the past won&#8217;t save newspapers &#171; Transforming the Gaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 03:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-11821</guid>
		<description>[...] have squandered opportunities to innovate before they became desperate. Steve Yelvington, Martin Langeveld, Jeff Jarvis and Danny Sullivan have made those points better than I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] have squandered opportunities to innovate before they became desperate. Steve Yelvington, Martin Langeveld, Jeff Jarvis and Danny Sullivan have made those points better than I [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Charles on&#8230; anything that comes along &#187; Linkage: Murdoch on Google, what paywalls lose, what comes after newspapers, and where all the US&#8217;s money went</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-11731</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles on&#8230; anything that comes along &#187; Linkage: Murdoch on Google, what paywalls lose, what comes after newspapers, and where all the US&#8217;s money went</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 20:17:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-11731</guid>
		<description>[...] Paying for online news: Sorry, but the math just doesn&#8217;t work. &#187; Nieman Journalism Lab  Are these viewer retention assumptions valid? Granted, they come from the top of my head. If you disagree, make your own assumptions; the math is simple. We don&#8217;t have a lot of real-world before-and-after figures from news sites that have imposed fees. But we know, for example, that the New York Times&#8217;s 2005-2007 Times Select experiment drew 227,000 paying customers at an average of about $3.70 a month (based on reported revenue of $10 million a year), at a time when the Times&#8217;s free content was drawing 13 million unique visitors a month &#8212; a conversion rate of less than 2 percent. Or consider that the Wall Street Journal has about a million paying subscribers at $8.66 a month, versus 14 million monthly UVs at the free New York Times site. Print circulation for the two are roughly equivalent, but the Journal&#8217;s fee cuts its online audience to just 7 percent of the Times&#8217;s. Based on this, retention rates as high as those I&#8217;ve modeled don&#8217;t look attainable, and retention high enough to increase net revenue is plainly not in the cards. (To get a net gain at a seemingly reasonable $5 a month rate, retention would have to be about 45 percent.) A simple tollbooth approach at any price cuts out the vast majority of the audience, and would mean that newspapers were retrenching to print &#8212; saying in effect, &#8220;If you want our news online, it&#8217;s there, just pay the fee, but we&#8217;re no longer investing much energy in developing our sites, because there&#8217;s no money on that side of the fence.&#8221; A newspaper industry retrenchment to print would mean a withdrawal from competing online. The game would be to squeeze the remaining profits out of print while the clock runs out; while readers continue to migrate online, now to non-newspaper online-only sources; and advertisers follow the audience to the Web. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Paying for online news: Sorry, but the math just doesn&rsquo;t work. &raquo; Nieman Journalism Lab  Are these viewer retention assumptions valid? Granted, they come from the top of my head. If you disagree, make your own assumptions; the math is simple. We don&rsquo;t have a lot of real-world before-and-after figures from news sites that have imposed fees. But we know, for example, that the New York Times&rsquo;s 2005-2007 Times Select experiment drew 227,000 paying customers at an average of about $3.70 a month (based on reported revenue of $10 million a year), at a time when the Times&rsquo;s free content was drawing 13 million unique visitors a month &mdash; a conversion rate of less than 2 percent. Or consider that the Wall Street Journal has about a million paying subscribers at $8.66 a month, versus 14 million monthly UVs at the free New York Times site. Print circulation for the two are roughly equivalent, but the Journal&rsquo;s fee cuts its online audience to just 7 percent of the Times&rsquo;s. Based on this, retention rates as high as those I&rsquo;ve modeled don&rsquo;t look attainable, and retention high enough to increase net revenue is plainly not in the cards. (To get a net gain at a seemingly reasonable $5 a month rate, retention would have to be about 45 percent.) A simple tollbooth approach at any price cuts out the vast majority of the audience, and would mean that newspapers were retrenching to print &mdash; saying in effect, &ldquo;If you want our news online, it&rsquo;s there, just pay the fee, but we&rsquo;re no longer investing much energy in developing our sites, because there&rsquo;s no money on that side of the fence.&rdquo; A newspaper industry retrenchment to print would mean a withdrawal from competing online. The game would be to squeeze the remaining profits out of print while the clock runs out; while readers continue to migrate online, now to non-newspaper online-only sources; and advertisers follow the audience to the Web. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Click World News &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Rupert Murdoch Switching Sides On Free Content?</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-11722</link>
		<dc:creator>Click World News &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Rupert Murdoch Switching Sides On Free Content?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-11722</guid>
		<description>[...] go talk to Murdoch of 2007.  Or, he should go talk with Martin Langeveld who actually tried to do the math on subscriptions vs. the loss in advertising from a much smaller base, and has a lot of trouble [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] go talk to Murdoch of 2007.  Or, he should go talk with Martin Langeveld who actually tried to do the math on subscriptions vs. the loss in advertising from a much smaller base, and has a lot of trouble [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Digitale Notizen &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Warum Paid Content nicht klappt</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-11716</link>
		<dc:creator>Digitale Notizen &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Warum Paid Content nicht klappt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-11716</guid>
		<description>[...] Paying for online news: Sorry, but the math just doesn’t work heißt das Fazit das Martin Langeveld auf Niemanlab zum Thema Paid content zieht (via) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Paying for online news: Sorry, but the math just doesn’t work heißt das Fazit das Martin Langeveld auf Niemanlab zum Thema Paid content zieht (via) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The 100 Year Flood for Newspapers &#124; Venture Chronicles</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-11706</link>
		<dc:creator>The 100 Year Flood for Newspapers &#124; Venture Chronicles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 13:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-11706</guid>
		<description>[...] Daily print is not a long-term sustainable model, and forward-looking newspapers, rather than exploring an online paywall, should explore transitioning to a once- or twice-weekly frequency, focusing their print efforts on a weekend edition distributed Friday. (Explore my prior musings about this for more.)[From Paying for online news: Sorry, but the math just doesn’t work. » Nieman Journalism Lab] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Daily print is not a long-term sustainable model, and forward-looking newspapers, rather than exploring an online paywall, should explore transitioning to a once- or twice-weekly frequency, focusing their print efforts on a weekend edition distributed Friday. (Explore my prior musings about this for more.)[From Paying for online news: Sorry, but the math just doesn’t work. » Nieman Journalism Lab] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Reg</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-11686</link>
		<dc:creator>Reg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Apr 2009 04:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-11686</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s possible that a new model of journalism will arise supported by online advertising; but in the meantime there&#039;s no reason to discourage active innovation and experimentation in new revenue models, including subscription fees of one kind or another.

It&#039;s true that lots of old-media journalists are curmudgeons who begrudge the changes that have come to the industry; but it&#039;s also true that there are ideologues on the other side for whom any form of payment is out of the question.  It&#039;s a new age - let&#039;s experiment and see what works in a fact-based way.

Revenue models are only one piece of the equation, of course.  We also have to look at new structures and cost structures for newsrooms - even blowing up the entire idea of newsrooms, perhaps. New revenue models may not support entire newspapers, but why should they?  Newspaper newsrooms are built a certain way to produce a certain product.  New online newsrooms needn&#039;t follow that model.

Likewise, new newsrooms will likely use new techniques and tools for both news gathering - crowdsourcing, data analysis, etc - and for story-telling - beyond slideshows and videos to interactive databases and topics pages.  

Not to mention new ways of thinking about the meaning of &quot;news&quot; - not as something that happened yesterday, but as content that addresses issues and questions people have, whenever they&#039;re interested in the topic.  That speaks to better taxonomy of information, search and archive capability, and potentially re-aggregating older stories into newer ones.

Presumably some or all of these things could lead to something sustainable - whether through some combination of lower newsroom costs, subscription fees, advertising revenue, philanthropy, or something else we haven&#039;t yet imagined. 

It&#039;s a brave new world, and a pretty exciting one in some respects.  But I&#039;ll echo Working Reporter above: Naysayers need not apply.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s possible that a new model of journalism will arise supported by online advertising; but in the meantime there&#8217;s no reason to discourage active innovation and experimentation in new revenue models, including subscription fees of one kind or another.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s true that lots of old-media journalists are curmudgeons who begrudge the changes that have come to the industry; but it&#8217;s also true that there are ideologues on the other side for whom any form of payment is out of the question.  It&#8217;s a new age &#8211; let&#8217;s experiment and see what works in a fact-based way.</p>
<p>Revenue models are only one piece of the equation, of course.  We also have to look at new structures and cost structures for newsrooms &#8211; even blowing up the entire idea of newsrooms, perhaps. New revenue models may not support entire newspapers, but why should they?  Newspaper newsrooms are built a certain way to produce a certain product.  New online newsrooms needn&#8217;t follow that model.</p>
<p>Likewise, new newsrooms will likely use new techniques and tools for both news gathering &#8211; crowdsourcing, data analysis, etc &#8211; and for story-telling &#8211; beyond slideshows and videos to interactive databases and topics pages.  </p>
<p>Not to mention new ways of thinking about the meaning of &#8220;news&#8221; &#8211; not as something that happened yesterday, but as content that addresses issues and questions people have, whenever they&#8217;re interested in the topic.  That speaks to better taxonomy of information, search and archive capability, and potentially re-aggregating older stories into newer ones.</p>
<p>Presumably some or all of these things could lead to something sustainable &#8211; whether through some combination of lower newsroom costs, subscription fees, advertising revenue, philanthropy, or something else we haven&#8217;t yet imagined. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a brave new world, and a pretty exciting one in some respects.  But I&#8217;ll echo Working Reporter above: Naysayers need not apply.</p>
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		<title>By: MichaelJ</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-11677</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 20:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-11677</guid>
		<description>Maybe the discussion is more useful if the question is framed &quot;Pay how much for what?&quot; For example, there was an article at the WSJ that was mentioned in a post that I wanted to see, now. The only way I could see the full thing was to buy a year&#039;s subscription.

My thinking was, &quot;I&#039;ve been thinking about doing that anyone. It is interesting to get their viewpoint - which I often disagree with - becuase what they say does become the common market &quot;wisdom&quot;, so what the heck..&quot; and I subscribed for the year.

Just to point out that the &quot;purchasing decision&#039; is much more complicated than what is the money cost of reading on line vs the cost of the paper in print.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the discussion is more useful if the question is framed &#8220;Pay how much for what?&#8221; For example, there was an article at the WSJ that was mentioned in a post that I wanted to see, now. The only way I could see the full thing was to buy a year&#8217;s subscription.</p>
<p>My thinking was, &#8220;I&#8217;ve been thinking about doing that anyone. It is interesting to get their viewpoint &#8211; which I often disagree with &#8211; becuase what they say does become the common market &#8220;wisdom&#8221;, so what the heck..&#8221; and I subscribed for the year.</p>
<p>Just to point out that the &#8220;purchasing decision&#8217; is much more complicated than what is the money cost of reading on line vs the cost of the paper in print.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-11675</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-11675</guid>
		<description>I think that paying for online news is an inevitable move for newspaper companies. Giving current print subscribers (who are still their most valuable assets) free access to online content is key. It adds perceived value to the print subscription, something that hasn&#039;t happened in awhile. 
Online revenue currently makes up, what, 10% of revenue for most mid-sized papers? Why not experiment with that portion of the revenue. All aboard!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that paying for online news is an inevitable move for newspaper companies. Giving current print subscribers (who are still their most valuable assets) free access to online content is key. It adds perceived value to the print subscription, something that hasn&#8217;t happened in awhile.<br />
Online revenue currently makes up, what, 10% of revenue for most mid-sized papers? Why not experiment with that portion of the revenue. All aboard!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Merschel</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/paying-for-online-news-sorry-but-the-math-just-doesnt-work/comment-page-1/#comment-11674</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Merschel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3685#comment-11674</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s hard to argue with these numbers, but just to advance the discussion -- is there any reliable way to predict what might happen if professional news organizations shifted en masse from being free to requiring some kind of payment? 

Right now, when the New York Times and Washington Post are free online, I&#039;ve got no reason to pay for the Wall Street Journal. But if all three of them start charging, suddenly I&#039;m going to have to consider paying for one of them. 

Would that possibly boost the retention levels in your analysis? 

Put another way, right now, I can read all the local news I want online free, making the print product look ridiculously overpriced. But if every local news source were to start charging, and that long-rumored day when all the blogs that merely recycle and scrape content go starving, wouldn&#039;t I be inclined to cough up a few microcents to get the news I need? 

Or do we assume that readers have permanently affixed a value of &quot;free&quot; to professional journalism, and the laws of supply and demand teach us there is no way we will ever get around that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s hard to argue with these numbers, but just to advance the discussion &#8212; is there any reliable way to predict what might happen if professional news organizations shifted en masse from being free to requiring some kind of payment? </p>
<p>Right now, when the New York Times and Washington Post are free online, I&#8217;ve got no reason to pay for the Wall Street Journal. But if all three of them start charging, suddenly I&#8217;m going to have to consider paying for one of them. </p>
<p>Would that possibly boost the retention levels in your analysis? </p>
<p>Put another way, right now, I can read all the local news I want online free, making the print product look ridiculously overpriced. But if every local news source were to start charging, and that long-rumored day when all the blogs that merely recycle and scrape content go starving, wouldn&#8217;t I be inclined to cough up a few microcents to get the news I need? </p>
<p>Or do we assume that readers have permanently affixed a value of &#8220;free&#8221; to professional journalism, and the laws of supply and demand teach us there is no way we will ever get around that?</p>
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