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	<title>Comments on: Yet another reminder that users are in charge: the DiggBar backlash</title>
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	<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge/</link>
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		<title>By: Plural Media</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-55573</link>
		<dc:creator>Plural Media</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3929#comment-55573</guid>
		<description>@ Tim Windsor you wrote, ...&quot;when Digg decided to launch an URL-shortening service...&quot; 

When words beginning with vowels are pronounced as if they begin with a consonant, the correct usage is &#039;a&#039; and not &#039;an&#039;. URL is pronounced as you-are-el.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Tim Windsor you wrote, &#8230;&#8221;when Digg decided to launch an URL-shortening service&#8230;&#8221; </p>
<p>When words beginning with vowels are pronounced as if they begin with a consonant, the correct usage is &#8216;a&#8217; and not &#8216;an&#8217;. URL is pronounced as you-are-el.</p>
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		<title>By: Srini Kumar</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-20640</link>
		<dc:creator>Srini Kumar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 05:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3929#comment-20640</guid>
		<description>they should have added more value.  if you could have seen a running commentary from digg users on the content on the site it might have been seen as a way for powerusers to gain more chi - sort of like that old ThirdVoice.  of course that would still tick off publishers but it would have been wiser politically i think.  just a guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>they should have added more value.  if you could have seen a running commentary from digg users on the content on the site it might have been seen as a way for powerusers to gain more chi &#8211; sort of like that old ThirdVoice.  of course that would still tick off publishers but it would have been wiser politically i think.  just a guess.</p>
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		<title>By: Eliot</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-18473</link>
		<dc:creator>Eliot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3929#comment-18473</guid>
		<description>So how will this frame issue play out in the &quot;Open Web&quot;? See Steve Rubel&#039;s excellent post at http://www.micropersuasion.com/2009/04/the-next-twitter-or-facebook-is-the-open-web.html and his example of shopping for a book on Amazon from within GMail - and imagine where that goes. (I have no affiliation with Rubel.)

 All sorts of content will follow users, wherever they are - what happens to impressions and ad revenue?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So how will this frame issue play out in the &#8220;Open Web&#8221;? See Steve Rubel&#8217;s excellent post at <a href="http://www.micropersuasion.com/2009/04/the-next-twitter-or-facebook-is-the-open-web.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.micropersuasion.com/2009/04/the-next-twitter-or-facebook-is-the-open-web.html</a> and his example of shopping for a book on Amazon from within GMail &#8211; and imagine where that goes. (I have no affiliation with Rubel.)</p>
<p> All sorts of content will follow users, wherever they are &#8211; what happens to impressions and ad revenue?</p>
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		<title>By: Recent posts at Nieman Journalism Lab &#8212; Zero Percent Idle</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-13148</link>
		<dc:creator>Recent posts at Nieman Journalism Lab &#8212; Zero Percent Idle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 12:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3929#comment-13148</guid>
		<description>[...] started a robust discussion by suggesting that the backlash against the DiggBar was a sign that users are much more in control than the [...]</description>
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<p>[...] started a robust discussion by suggesting that the backlash against the DiggBar was a sign that users are much more in control than the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Status</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-12586</link>
		<dc:creator>Status</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 20:42:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3929#comment-12586</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Control...&lt;/strong&gt;

I&#039;m noticing a confluence of debates on the Internet this past week, not an unusual occurence, but one of particular interest to me at the moment since I have a couple of clients who are looking to monetize their content in the middle of the collapse ...</description>
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<p><strong>Control&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>I&#8217;m noticing a confluence of debates on the Internet this past week, not an unusual occurence, but one of particular interest to me at the moment since I have a couple of clients who are looking to monetize their content in the middle of the collapse &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: To Hell in a Handbasket &#187; DiggBar Sucks</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-12562</link>
		<dc:creator>To Hell in a Handbasket &#187; DiggBar Sucks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 18:18:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3929#comment-12562</guid>
		<description>[...] a good article on the whole [...]</description>
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<p>[...] a good article on the whole [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Will the DiggBar instigator be fired? &#171; counternotions</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-12494</link>
		<dc:creator>Will the DiggBar instigator be fired? &#171; counternotions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Apr 2009 08:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3929#comment-12494</guid>
		<description>[...] Tue, Apr 14, 09   By now the furor over DiggBar — Digg&#8217;s naked attempt at stealing link juice via URL misdirection — and frame-busting counter-measures are well-spread. [...]</description>
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<p>[...] Tue, Apr 14, 09   By now the furor over DiggBar — Digg&#8217;s naked attempt at stealing link juice via URL misdirection — and frame-busting counter-measures are well-spread. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Walt</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-12357</link>
		<dc:creator>Walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 14:08:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3929#comment-12357</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not about SEO!

Well, at least not entirely.  

Let&#039;s say Digg worked out the SEO part 100%.  Then it&#039;s cool to use?  Of course not!  

1. It&#039;s poor web etiquette.  What if every site did it?  (&quot;Yeah, but Digg is just not &#039;any&#039; site.&quot;)  OK, what if the top 100 sites did it?  What if Google did it?  

2. It&#039;s ego driven.  You love Digg so much, why would you want to leave?  How about you just stay on Digg, and we&#039;ll pull over that site and put it on the page for you.  Copyright violation, anyone?

3. Digg is putting their ads on other people&#039;s sites.  In their frame, click on something to take action, and the frame expands complete with an advertisement.  Digg displays your content below, but puts their ad at the top.  Above any of the ads you might have.  So, not only are they displaying your content to generate ad revenue, but they&#039;re also diluting the value of your ads by putting their ad first. 

4. This isn&#039;t about user experience, or to make it easier for the Digg community, or whatever else they&#039;re feeding everyone.  It&#039;s about money. Digg&#039;s only motivation for the Diggbar is to increase the Digg audience, increase the time on the site, increase revenue, and so on.  Whatever else Kevin Rose says is part of the Pollyanna PR spin.  Making money is great. I&#039;m a big fan of that personally. But, when you&#039;re pulling this kind of crap to make your money, i guess you&#039;re better off putting the &quot;it&#039;s really for the user&quot; spin on it!

5. It&#039;s not opt-in.  What if a site doesn&#039;t want the Diggbar at the top of it&#039;s page? I mean, it&#039;s not Digg&#039;s page, right?  If a web site owner doesn&#039;t want his user experience altered, that his/her right, yes?  (&quot;Well, they can block it using various tools.&quot;)  Why should they have to?  Isn&#039;t that the unsolicited emailer&#039;s creed?  &quot;You didn&#039;t ask for this, but if you don&#039;t like it, just click on the unsubscribe link.&quot;  Diggbar sounds spammy to me. 

For being the tech saint he is, lover of open-source, feel-good guy, I expected a lot more out of Kevin Rose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not about SEO!</p>
<p>Well, at least not entirely.  </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s say Digg worked out the SEO part 100%.  Then it&#8217;s cool to use?  Of course not!  </p>
<p>1. It&#8217;s poor web etiquette.  What if every site did it?  (&#8220;Yeah, but Digg is just not &#8216;any&#8217; site.&#8221;)  OK, what if the top 100 sites did it?  What if Google did it?  </p>
<p>2. It&#8217;s ego driven.  You love Digg so much, why would you want to leave?  How about you just stay on Digg, and we&#8217;ll pull over that site and put it on the page for you.  Copyright violation, anyone?</p>
<p>3. Digg is putting their ads on other people&#8217;s sites.  In their frame, click on something to take action, and the frame expands complete with an advertisement.  Digg displays your content below, but puts their ad at the top.  Above any of the ads you might have.  So, not only are they displaying your content to generate ad revenue, but they&#8217;re also diluting the value of your ads by putting their ad first. </p>
<p>4. This isn&#8217;t about user experience, or to make it easier for the Digg community, or whatever else they&#8217;re feeding everyone.  It&#8217;s about money. Digg&#8217;s only motivation for the Diggbar is to increase the Digg audience, increase the time on the site, increase revenue, and so on.  Whatever else Kevin Rose says is part of the Pollyanna PR spin.  Making money is great. I&#8217;m a big fan of that personally. But, when you&#8217;re pulling this kind of crap to make your money, i guess you&#8217;re better off putting the &#8220;it&#8217;s really for the user&#8221; spin on it!</p>
<p>5. It&#8217;s not opt-in.  What if a site doesn&#8217;t want the Diggbar at the top of it&#8217;s page? I mean, it&#8217;s not Digg&#8217;s page, right?  If a web site owner doesn&#8217;t want his user experience altered, that his/her right, yes?  (&#8220;Well, they can block it using various tools.&#8221;)  Why should they have to?  Isn&#8217;t that the unsolicited emailer&#8217;s creed?  &#8220;You didn&#8217;t ask for this, but if you don&#8217;t like it, just click on the unsubscribe link.&#8221;  Diggbar sounds spammy to me. </p>
<p>For being the tech saint he is, lover of open-source, feel-good guy, I expected a lot more out of Kevin Rose.</p>
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		<title>By: Yet Another Reminder That Users Are in Charge: The DiggBar Backlash &#124; Tim Windsor &#124; Voices &#124; AllThingsD</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-12319</link>
		<dc:creator>Yet Another Reminder That Users Are in Charge: The DiggBar Backlash &#124; Tim Windsor &#124; Voices &#124; AllThingsD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 07:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3929#comment-12319</guid>
		<description>[...] Read the rest of this post   Print  all_things_di220:http://voices.allthingsd.com/20090413/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge-the-diggbar-backlash/?reflink=ATD_yahoo_buzz Sharevar obj = SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title: &quot;Yet Another Reminder That Users Are in Charge: The DiggBar Backlash&quot;, url: &quot;http://voices.allthingsd.com/20090413/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge-the-diggbar-backlash/&quot; },{button:false});var elem = document.getElementById(&quot;share-10631-0.56651500 1239607970&quot;);obj.attachButton(elem); Comment  Tagged: Internet, Voices, Digg, DiggBar, Nieman Journalism Lab, publishers, Tim Windsor, users &#124; permalink    Sphere.Inline.search(&quot;&quot;, &quot;http://voices.allthingsd.com/20090413/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge-the-diggbar-backlash/&quot;); [...]</description>
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<p>[...] Read the rest of this post   Print  all_things_di220:http://voices.allthingsd.com/20090413/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge-the-diggbar-backlash/?reflink=ATD_yahoo_buzz Sharevar obj = SHARETHIS.addEntry({ title: &#8220;Yet Another Reminder That Users Are in Charge: The DiggBar Backlash&#8221;, url: &#8220;http://voices.allthingsd.com/20090413/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge-the-diggbar-backlash/&#8221; },{button:false});var elem = document.getElementById(&#8220;share-10631-0.56651500 1239607970&#8243;);obj.attachButton(elem); Comment  Tagged: Internet, Voices, Digg, DiggBar, Nieman Journalism Lab, publishers, Tim Windsor, users | permalink    Sphere.Inline.search(&#8220;&#8221;, &#8220;http://voices.allthingsd.com/20090413/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge-the-diggbar-backlash/&#8221;); [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Eklund</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-12297</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Eklund</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 00:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3929#comment-12297</guid>
		<description>What most people fail to realize is that if Digg is allowed to frame other publishers&#039; websites, more will follow their lead and soon the Web will be nothing but frames within frames.

This is exactly why frames were stopped in the early 1990&#039;s.  The only difference is that these frame spammers are repackaging it as a service and baiting publishers with promises of greater traffic returns.  In contrast to Digg&#039;s empty promises, publishers can improve their traffic stats by actually blocking the DiggBar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What most people fail to realize is that if Digg is allowed to frame other publishers&#8217; websites, more will follow their lead and soon the Web will be nothing but frames within frames.</p>
<p>This is exactly why frames were stopped in the early 1990&#8217;s.  The only difference is that these frame spammers are repackaging it as a service and baiting publishers with promises of greater traffic returns.  In contrast to Digg&#8217;s empty promises, publishers can improve their traffic stats by actually blocking the DiggBar.</p>
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		<title>By: BizThoughts - Twitter Fizzle - Business and Entrepreneurial Thoughts from Mike Lee</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-12285</link>
		<dc:creator>BizThoughts - Twitter Fizzle - Business and Entrepreneurial Thoughts from Mike Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 20:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3929#comment-12285</guid>
		<description>[...] add more drama to the issue, Digg.com recently released the DiggBar, much to the ire of many a netizen. The DiggBar is yet another URL shortening service, but with a twist. It adds a toolbar at the top [...]</description>
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<p>[...] add more drama to the issue, Digg.com recently released the DiggBar, much to the ire of many a netizen. The DiggBar is yet another URL shortening service, but with a twist. It adds a toolbar at the top [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Windsor</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-12263</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Windsor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 15:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3929#comment-12263</guid>
		<description>Given that a lot of people here think that I&#039;m confusing Jon Gruber for a user, rather than a publisher, I thought I&#039;d answer:

- Yes, he is a publisher, of a popular and specialized blog. He has a vested interest as such in protecting his traffic. So he&#039;s not a pure &quot;user&quot; as I described him.

- However he&#039;s also not a large publisher, of the scale of a Digg or a newspaper or magazine.

- My point was that large publishers, acting in self-interest can no longer expect that such action is unilateral anymore. Individual users and smaller publishers on whom the larger publisher depends for aggregated content or user-created content have the same tools -- and often greater grasp of them -- as do the larger publishers.

- This is, on the whole, a good thing. It keeps everyone on their toes and, ultimately, leads to a better user experience. It is, however, a pain in the ass if you&#039;re a large publisher uninterested in change.

I was wrong to call Gruber a user, but I&#039;d like to think the larger premise holds.

And to John Giannakos, you are correct that the URL is visible in the DiggBar (and clickable too). I should have been more precise and said that the URL is rendered invisible in the browser&#039;s location bar.

Thanks for all the comments. Who knew that people read Nieman on the weekend?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given that a lot of people here think that I&#8217;m confusing Jon Gruber for a user, rather than a publisher, I thought I&#8217;d answer:</p>
<p>- Yes, he is a publisher, of a popular and specialized blog. He has a vested interest as such in protecting his traffic. So he&#8217;s not a pure &#8220;user&#8221; as I described him.</p>
<p>- However he&#8217;s also not a large publisher, of the scale of a Digg or a newspaper or magazine.</p>
<p>- My point was that large publishers, acting in self-interest can no longer expect that such action is unilateral anymore. Individual users and smaller publishers on whom the larger publisher depends for aggregated content or user-created content have the same tools &#8212; and often greater grasp of them &#8212; as do the larger publishers.</p>
<p>- This is, on the whole, a good thing. It keeps everyone on their toes and, ultimately, leads to a better user experience. It is, however, a pain in the ass if you&#8217;re a large publisher uninterested in change.</p>
<p>I was wrong to call Gruber a user, but I&#8217;d like to think the larger premise holds.</p>
<p>And to John Giannakos, you are correct that the URL is visible in the DiggBar (and clickable too). I should have been more precise and said that the URL is rendered invisible in the browser&#8217;s location bar.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the comments. Who knew that people read Nieman on the weekend?!</p>
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		<title>By: Linkpost &#124; 4.12.2009 &#124; Tech-Talks.com</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-12262</link>
		<dc:creator>Linkpost &#124; 4.12.2009 &#124; Tech-Talks.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 15:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3929#comment-12262</guid>
		<description>[...] • Yet another reminder that users are in charge: the DiggBar backlash [...]</description>
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<p>[...] • Yet another reminder that users are in charge: the DiggBar backlash [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-12253</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 14:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3929#comment-12253</guid>
		<description>There may well be a user backlash of some sort (although I haven&#039;t heard anyone other than a few purists complaining) but this article didn&#039;t describe it... this is a publisher reacting in a predictable way, and doesn&#039;t demonstrate in the slightest any user backlash.

It&#039;s like saying that the AP&#039;s reaction to Google News is a &quot;user backlash&quot; because AP Chairman William Singleton also happens to use Google from time to time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There may well be a user backlash of some sort (although I haven&#8217;t heard anyone other than a few purists complaining) but this article didn&#8217;t describe it&#8230; this is a publisher reacting in a predictable way, and doesn&#8217;t demonstrate in the slightest any user backlash.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s like saying that the AP&#8217;s reaction to Google News is a &#8220;user backlash&#8221; because AP Chairman William Singleton also happens to use Google from time to time.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Lundmark</title>
		<link>http://www.niemanlab.org/2009/04/yet-another-reminder-that-users-are-in-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-12240</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Lundmark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Apr 2009 09:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.niemanlab.org/?p=3929#comment-12240</guid>
		<description>I would disagree with some comments here stating that this is only a publisher backlash. In fact, many users expect to see the real URLs in their browser by default. As a user, when I hit Bookmark I want to get the descriptive URL, not a shortened one. I know it can be turned off, but that&#039;s not the point. I think DiggBar is bad for web users and should be opt-in, not opt-out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would disagree with some comments here stating that this is only a publisher backlash. In fact, many users expect to see the real URLs in their browser by default. As a user, when I hit Bookmark I want to get the descriptive URL, not a shortened one. I know it can be turned off, but that&#8217;s not the point. I think DiggBar is bad for web users and should be opt-in, not opt-out.</p>
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